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Water based sealer over oil paint?

 
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BrushStrokes



Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 15
Location: Georgia

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:52 pm    Post subject: Water based sealer over oil paint? Reply with quote

I am looking for a water based sealer that I can use over an oil paint finish (kitchen cabinets). Normally I would use an oil varnish, but I need something that won't yellow because the oil paint is a white color. We would be spraying the doors and brushing the cabinet bases. Any suggestions?
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Lou Ann Lanier



Joined: 08 May 2008
Posts: 346
Location: Madison, Alabama
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Zinsser 123 Primer = water base over previously painted cabinets all the time. works great - no problems. use the oil base 123 over stained cabinets.

Lou Ann
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lisascenic



Joined: 31 Jan 2007
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area -- East Bay
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do you need to apply a sealer over an oil paint?
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BrushStrokes



Joined: 16 Sep 2007
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Location: Georgia

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I applied a wiping stain (Old Masters brand) over oil paint cabinets. I am not sure that the wiping stain will be stable without a sealer over it. I need a product that won't yellow. All of the water based products
specify that the oil paint must cure for 6 - 8 weeks before application. I can't wait that long.
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anita



Joined: 16 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes the product controls the applicator instead of vice versa. Is the reason you cannot wait that long because you have an impatient client?
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strongv
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you need oil, you should use oil... some times we can push the envelope and mix mediums but kitchen cabinets is one area you should be positively religious about keeping your materials straight.

IF your color palette wont allow ANY yellowing... perhaps this should have been an acrylic enamel undercoat, a waterbased stain, and then a waterborne varnish...

You are going to have to let your base cure before you do anything it seems like...

I am guessing oil based enamel base, Old Master's wiping stain and THEN you want to topcoat it quickly? this stuff has to cure. You can't rush it. I would still use a topcoat rated for oil... there may be a waterborn or other water clear coat out there that won't yellow as much as, say, Minwax, but your oil undercoat is going to yellow some ... perhaps this won't be such a big deal?

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Patricia Stein



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Location: Chicago, IL
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Water based sealer over oil paint? Reply with quote

BrushStrokes wrote:
I am looking for a water based sealer that I can use over an oil paint finish (kitchen cabinets). Normally I would use an oil varnish, but I need something that won't yellow because the oil paint is a white color. We would be spraying the doors and brushing the cabinet bases. Any suggestions?



I personally love Old Masters oil based products and use often when doing furniture grade finishes. I typically use a lacquer clear finish coat over light colors as it doesnt yellow like varnish does. Using fine steel wool to buff it once dry will reveal beautiful results. Plus it dries quick and is tough and durable for use in high traffic areas or those where water and grease are prevalent. It washes nicely with soap and water too.

The Old Masters wiping stains dry in about 10-14 hours (depending upon application and can be sealed after 24 hours of dry time, oil paints/glazes cure once dry.

However, its important to create a barrier between your finish and a laqcuer topcoat to prevent problems (I use wax free shellac - the fresher the better). Always create a sample with all layers so that you know exactly what the outcome will be.

Also, keep in mind that spraying will look different than brushing - better to use a foam roller on the cabinet bases which will look more like your sprayed doors. Use a brush only on the edges where the roller will not reach, using a light stipple to even out.

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strongv
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of lacquer, but it does have to be carefully and evenly applied. Any pooling can 'eat' your Old Master's finish if it not perfectly cured and hard.
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Patricia Stein



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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:53 am    Post subject: Water Based sealer over oil paint Reply with quote

strongv wrote:
I like the idea of lacquer, but it does have to be carefully and evenly applied. Any pooling can 'eat' your Old Master's finish if it not perfectly cured and hard.



I completely agree with careful application of lacquer - it can crack or 'alligator" unless a good barrier coat is applied between the finishes. (Learned that lesson the hard way years ago!)

I mix up my own shellac (using 1/4 pound of shellac flakes to 1 quart of denatured alcohol) and apply after the oil glaze has dried completely.

There are so many different varieties of shellac flakes available now from light blonde to black (no more worries about yellowing or ambering from the stock varieties)

You only need one coat of shellac, but make sure you get it everywhere. Applying a second coat of shellac is a waste of time unless there are problems in your first coat, since each layer of shellac dissolves the one before.

Lacquer is the preferred topcoat of choice for high end furniture finishes, but it is not for the faint of heart. It is highly toxic, flammable and must be applied in a well ventilated area. I use a nitrocellulose lacquer (Made by Deft) thinned with naptha and spray the cabinet doors in my work studio with my HVLP. When at the client jobsite, I brush the bases using the best natural bristle brush possible.

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