need to repair destroyed drywall surface

[JillC]

Okay, due to a situation way beyond my control, the old finish (which was very heavy) was removed from the walls of one room in my clients home by a non-painter. Now there are major areas where the top layer of the drywall is gone and in some areas it is even down to the gyp.

I have dealt with smaller areas of this, but never this amount. Also, the drywall can't be replaced for a variety of reasons that I will skip for now.

My question - is there anything out there that can be applied that is in sheet or roll form that will 'replace' the now-missing paper? I was thinking that after a VERY GENTLE removal of all the brown flaking/peeling bits and filling the gouges (was going to use an acrylic 'stucco-like' product I have on hand that will not re-activate with moisture - better ideas?) that I would cover these areas with something akin to wallpaper liner.

This is a wonderful new client and we have already finished one huge room and have more work coming. I just want to make sure that whatever I use will stay put. Thoughts? Ideas? Pity? Bring it on.

[Charlene]

I have use bridging paper before purchased at my local HD. You put it on horizonally with a 1/8 gap which you spackle.

I havent used it in a long while so I am not sure they still carry it. It was found in the wallpaper section. Thick Rolls, heavy duty paper almost like thin cardboard. I have used it over 1965 wallpaer in leu of removal as well as un repairable walls.

[erik]

Depending on how much paper is missing, one option is to hit the paperless areas with an oil primer, and then skim out the walls. The oil primer will block the moisture from your fill material getting into the porous areas.

[FauxNut]

Your problem isnt really as bad as you think. Missing drywall paper only means that the gypsum is exposed. You need not prime the area before the repair. Since you are going to texture as your finish here is what you can do.

Sand all the walls to get the wall even and scuffed. Then where you have larger divits fill them with 90 minute durabond but make sure that you skim them tight. Durabond is made to do repairs and is more on the cement like product then the gypsum so it is very hard to sand. The great thing about it is it barley shinks so you can do fast repairs and it will dry in 90 minutes. Once you have done all your repairs and everything is clean then you should prime it with a oil primer and do your finish.

This pic below (which I lifted ) is what you will be looking for. Now if you get it from Home Depot it could be in a white and blue bag but it will say 90 minute durabond.

Mixing: Only mix in your mud pan (only mix what you can spread it 20 minutes) Put a small amount (1/8" in the bottom of the pan and grab a handful of powder and mix it in the pan with your knife (drywall knife), it should be the same consistancy as thinned drywall mud (should bond to the knife and not run off but just not to thick). When it starts to cake in the pan (caking is starting to loose its moisture) dump what is in the pan and mix some more and continue.

[Harvey]

The brown paper can be sealed down tight with Gardz made by Zinser. You will need to remove the loose stuff and then apply it very heavy until it won't take any more then let it dry and the paper won't bubble any more. The nice thing is it is a waterborne product. Then proceed with whatever you want to put over it to smooth it out.

[chuckhorn]

Edited by Chuck

Harvey posted while I was responding....he has good information, too.

------------------------------------

To clarify what Rob said, and to repeat what Erik said...prime the affected areas.

Here are a few options which will provide the (required) vapor barrier:

BIN Primer (pigmented shellac)

Kilz (Original, not Kilz2 or Kilz Premium)

Guardz (by Zinnser)

most any "off the shelf" Alkyd Primers

a product from Scotch called (I think) "Draw Tight"

If you don't create a vapor barrier before patching, the brown paper will bubble, and you will be very frustrated.

My favorite is BIN primer. It dries very quickly, and does an excellent job in sealing the damaged sheetrock.

Talk to your local top of the line paint stores....notice I said paint store, not "big box" store.

[FauxNut]

Harvey and Chuck,

Your way is probably safer in this case but by using durabond it is not necessary. The problem that you have with drywall compound vs durabond is the length of time it stays wet. When using Durabond (I use 20 minute and 5 minute) the paper will make it dry even faster. I know it works well this way as I have been doing for years and just last weekend did my bathroom after taking off 2 terrible layers of wallpaper which destroyed areas.
In all reality, I should refrain from giving out information that does not involve primer when talking on this board. Sometimes I forget that it can be misunderstood or taken as a shortcut and because of that I totally agree with both Chuck and Harvey!! In this case SW makes a product like Drawtite or use drawtite as it is clear and you seal the damage but can still see it so it can be easily repaired.

These boards are great but it is just so much easier showing how to fix problems then trying to explain it.

[kevin]

If you use the gardz to seal off the loose brown paper add about 0ne quart to 2 gallons of drywall compound ,mix with a drill for 2min.The compound will go on great and there will be no shrinkage.Have used this method many times after removing wall covering and having to repair the unprimed substrate.Good luck Kevin

[chuckhorn]

wow...I learned something tonight.

I love this place.

[strongv]

All of the above,

Sheetrock is fairly easy to repair.. the paper is just there to protect the gyp, and to provide a smooth surface.... don't worry if it's gone, just fill and level.

It may take a few layers, usually three.

Its really easy and universally messy, but don't be daunted.

Pat

[bigfootnampa]

Well I must say that I see some misconceptions here. Drywall paper is the main source of strength for the product. Without the paper on BOTH sides of it the gypsum is extremely weak and unstable. You CAN fix areas where the paper is removed on the face side. It IS important to add strength wherever the areas are of significant size. I usually do this by just adding fiberglass tape, wherever needed, and then durabonding over it.

The paper splits (where the paper has the surface removed) WILL bubble (even with Durabond) unless you seal them with oil base primer. Sometimes the bubbles are small or few enough to cause little concern if you have taped over the areas though. If you do get bubbles (sometimes they pop up even after priming) slit them and glue and press them back flat.

[JillC]

It sounds like the Gardz might be the answer. Some walls are about 90% down to the brown paper with random 4" x 4" (give or take) areas of gyp.

The gyp areas are easier to deal with then the brown paper - bubble, bubble, toil and trouble - so that was where the idea of using some type of product on a roll to just seal it all up came from.

Thank you all for your input !!

[FauxNut]

bigfootnampa,

Whoa, you are way wrong about drywall. While it is true that drywall gets its strength from the paper repairs dont always need mesh tape missing paper does not mean any loss in strength. I started doing repairs on drywall in 1987 as well as plaster repair. I have plenty of experience what will work and I have read through everyones comments and I do not see any misconseptions.
Think about it this way, if the paper is so important and looses its strength once damaged then you couldnt add light holes, score it, cut it, rasp it as it would loose strength. If damage made it loose strength then repairs would be worthless and the only way to fix it would be to cut it out and replace it. We just did a total repair today in a home where it was a rental property and the renter kicked holes in the walls, we simply cut, replaced the areas and used mesh tape and 20 minute durabond. Now for the divits that were all over the place and the nail pops we did not use mesh tape we just did our repairs.

[strongv]

You'd have to have an awfully big damaged bit to 'weaken' it with a repair of setting plaster.

If the damage is so big the structure of the gyp and paper is gone, just replace the drywall. Cut out the damaged bit with square edges, trim the paper off about two inches or so from the edge of the cut, make a patch the size of the hole, but with paper flanges made from the attached paper on one side. Reinforce your hole with a bit of stud, cut to fit from stud to stud across the center of the hole... it gives you something to anchor the patch against.

then, butter the inside of the patches flange with drywall mud, but the patch in place and screw it into the wooden brace. Skim and float thinly... then fill it out more solidly in the next layer... sand, skim and let it dry and you're ready for texture.

If the paper is soooo gone that the structure is compromised, replace the sheetrock.

Pat

[bigfootnampa]

"While it is true that drywall gets its strength from the paper repairs dont always need mesh tape"

True for small areas... NOT true for 90 percent of surfaces!

"missing paper does not mean any loss in strength"

UNtrue this makes no sense

"If damage made it loose strength then repairs would be worthless"

If the drywall has already broken up this would be true but when it is still flat using strong mud (such as Durabond) to bond glass tape to the surface replaces the original paper strength AND THEN SOME. Durabond has a lot of glue content (one reason it gets SO hard) thus it will bond strongly to the existing surface. Another option is to use a rewettable plaster glue to bond the tape and the mud will reactivate and adhere to this also.

"Now for the divits that were all over the place and the nail pops we did not use mesh tape we just did our repairs."

Sure, that's fine for small divots BUT NOT for areas where 90 per cent of the paper is missing. It WOULD likely be better and also easier to replace areas of the drywall where there is this much damage... however, I am assuming that the OP has considered and rejected this solution for whatever reason.

"You'd have to have an awfully big damaged bit to 'weaken' it with a repair of setting plaster."

True! I'd guess that 90 percent of surface areas would certainly qualify though Pat. Not that Durabond would weaken it at all but just that it's wisest in such situation to also add some glass tape for strength... plaster is a lot like concrete, it has great strength in compression but not much in tension. So by adding glass tape (or paper) to the surfaces we can create tensile strength... similar to the way we use concrete, adding steel mesh or rebar to gain tensile strength.

One more thing in case Jill decides to replace some of the drywall... I try to make my cuts an 1 1/2" or so inside of the studs (where possible) and then just screw cheap 1x4's to the edges so that they lap halfway into my repair area This is quicker than dealing with cuts halfway on the studs and plenty strong. Thus I have a wood batten behind my repair piece to screw into and the glass tape over the seam completes the repair joint.

[FauxNut]

Hmmmm................

Little defensive arent we??? Can you show us pics of what can be repaired surface wise and what needs to be replaced? The reason I ask is we all may be right as you are thinking damage in one scense and I may be thinking another. Either way there is no reason to get upset.

JillC,

Do you have pics of the damage?

[bigfootnampa]

Sorry Rob... I don't mean to be impugn your knowledge or skill. I am sure that you are right in that if you or Pat or I were facing this situation in the flesh there would likely be only small preferential differences in our solutions. It is easy to misinterpret when reading text and each reader is conjuring their own image sometimes based on experiences which may or may NOT be closely analogous to the OP's situation.

Anyway I just wanted to make my points clear because I think The OP here may need the info. If we were able to discuss this in person we could be more attuned to everyones body language and tone of voice and we'd be more likely to lighten any tensions and laugh a bit. Don't take anything I wrote as a deliberate put down or insult. You have to think about what you write because sometimes you might be thinking about a 6" square of damaged paper while the OP is looking at half a sheet with no paper on it and the repair solutions might be pretty different.

[FauxNut]

Hey it is not a big deal, I just didnt want this to get out of hand. In one way or another we are all right depending on the situation. What we need to do when we need help is have a photo available that we can post and then I am sure as pros in the field we can all give our experiences to the person in need of help.

[JillC]

Okay, here is the scoop. The client hired a family friend to remove an existing textured finish from some walls. I stayed out of it entirely, even when she said she had never done anything like this before. The client was trying to help her out, make some extra money, that type of thing.

Since this is a bit of a touchy situation, I am trying to avoid replacing the drywall. There is a chance the husband may say, 'Why did we pay to remove the texture when the wallboard is being replaced entirely?'.

Not wanting to put anyone else between a rock and a hard place, except me of course, I am going for the most 'politically correct' method of repair that is also sound and durable. For the most part, there is just a lot of exposed brown paper, with the topmost layer of white/gray outer paper being all that is gone. I have used the Guardz in the past when there have been small areas of exposed brown paper to seal it up and prevent bubbling. Works fine.

This is just the largest area I have dealt with by far in this condition (can't get a photo for about a week - sorry!) and I thought, hmm, how about replacing the missing top-most layer of paper to seal up all the exposed brown paper. That then brought into play the following questions: 1. What material to use? 2. What adhesive to use that would not re-activate when the new texture was applied?

There are certainly many, many ways to deal with this type of repair (as we have seen), I was just thinking of one that might work out well for this specific job. All of this info is good stuff for discussion, especially since many of us have to go to 'Plan B' on some jobs for a variety of reasons.

[strongv]

Jill, really, this is not that bad..... you'd have to have hanging chunks gone to worry about replacing the drywall itself or it would have to be damaged by water or something heinous.

Just skim it out. Mud floats beautifully over the brown paper and over most shallow dings. If you have large areas to do; Two coats skim, sand, brush off or vacuum, and then one final tight skim. It will look good enough to just flat paint.

If you are doing texture anyway, skim flush, prime and go. Drawtight or Gardz both do a wonderful job of consolidating a surface and priming raw jc.

If you have anything more than about 1/4 " deep ding, think about Durabond instead of mud;... less shrinkage. and fewer cracks.

Pat