Shower surround

[Aaron]

OK, well if you're in Vancouver BC I'll be doing a free Stucco Italiano demo February 7th. Contact me for details.

Anybody want to go to Vicenza for Palladio's 500th birthday? Study Marmorino with a Giovanni Polistena? He's really good. Here's some info:

http://venetianplaster.typepad.com/stuccoitaliano/2008/01/lets-go---italy.html

[KathyFakesIt]

I'm looking forward to it Aaron!

Italy,sounds divine dahling, how about dinner in Vancouver for now?

[Freedee]

OK, here's an update on my shower surround.

I spoke to Arlene on the phone, and she told me what she did in her shower. She used dimensions products and sealed them. First she used their primer, then Marmorino, then their sealer. I spoke to Nina in FL. She agreed to sell me products, but would not guarantee them with out me taking the course. (I've taken a Kolcatico course at Sepp in NY. Kolcastico is synthetic, it's not the same, I know.)

Here's the plan. I'm having a concrete guy do the mud basin, and the curve on the corners of the walls. I'll make up some samples of the finish on concrete backer board, that's what up there now, and if it's good, I'll do it. If not, I'll get someone else to do it, or take a course.

The point is that real tadlect is too hard to learn, and even when you do learn how to do it, it's a lot of labor. So I decided not to take a class in tadlect because even if I finally master the technique, it's not the kind of work I want to do.

Here's some in-site into the thinking process I use when I'm advising the kids or friends, sometimes, people get very involved with the directions of how to get there, without really being sure that "there", is where they want to go. I tell the kids " before you get all the directions to get to Duluth, are you sure that Duluth, is where you want to go? (And when I finish talking, I gently wake them up with a kiss on the cheek.)

[KathyFakesIt]

LOL!

Sounds very logical to me.

[Freedee]

OK. Here's whats going on now. I'm frustrated. I arranged for the plumber to be here at the same time as the concrete man so that they can work out the exact height of the drain. The concrete guy comes a 1/2 hour late. The plumber is charging me by the hour. they start with a back and forth on the height of the drain. It becomes clear that the concrete guy doesn't have it worked out. The plumber leaves and says he'll send his assistant over to cut the drain, and install it. The assistant installs it. The concrete man puts the first layer of concrete in. He notices after, that the drain is not level. The plumber says it was probably level when he left, the concrete man moved it. He can jack hammer out the concrete and reinstall the drain. I have radiant heat tubes below it. I could risk one of then being punctured, that a very difficult repair after it's in the concrete. I decide to let it be. It was 1/4" lower on one side.

When he finishes the second layer, we can see that the threshold is only about 2 1/4" up. that means that if the drain gets a little clogged with hair, it will spill out onto the floor. It also means that that I won't have room for a nice radius on my rounded edges. Now I am going to have to build up an higher thresh hold. But the rubber liner is already in around the shorter threshold. Water proofing the built up thresh hold coud get conplicated. I asked the concrete guy how did the mistake happen with the height. He said the plumber's assistant said that it should be that height. He didn't want to argue with him. He then said he could have installed the drain himself. He didn't mention that earlier.

I'm thinking of jack hammering it out and starting fresh. Now I know how to do this. Maybe I'll do it myself.

I'm not a very large woman. Should I try renting a jack hammer. It could be fun, or I could get hurt.

[Freedee]

The plumber will be lending me a small jack hammer of his. I'm going to do it myself, or at least that's the plan. My husband will be out oftown this weekend, so I'll be able to get away with it. THis is a little sick, but I'm excited about doing this.

If no one ever hears from me again, you'll know what happened.

[Freedee]

Hey Eli, I have to figure out if I need to waterproof the walls of the shower before I apply the primer for Marmorino from perfectino.

How did I know you'd be here?

[The Plasterers Arms]

if done properly you would of sloped the shower basin before you installed the membrane,your concrete guy which really should of been your tile guy would then install the mud base ,sloped to the height of the drain .

they screwed it up ....or someone did anyways.

you are going to jackhammer the mudbase out and start over,if you did install the membrane correctly ,your jackhammering will no doubt ruin the membrane.

why didn't you uninstall the mud as soon as you noticed it was wrong?longer you leave it the harder it gets.

if this is the case and you do ruin the membrane,you will then have to uninstall the wall panels hardi/durock or W.H.Y

correct proceedure:

preslope shower floor (drypack mud)

install membrane

install walls durock/hardi (no fasteners bottom 16" or so)

install expanded metal to curb(no nails)

install drypack to floor,slope 2 degrees or so to drain finish curb at the same time.

now you can either set your tile into this drypack by pounding them in with a rubber mallet (this is why the tile setter should of done the mudbase,as this is the best way to do a shower floor imo) the mudbase also becomes your tile grout (might want to incorporate a water proofing agent into your dry pack) can be done with or with out. without you would use a concrete sealer after cure time....kryton.

or....you can let this set then apply your tile as per todays standards ie thinset.

wanna go one step further?....apply kerdi schluter membrane to the shower floor, set tile as normal.

wall membrane? of course, kerdi schluter membrane >> floor to ceiling.

before all of this takes place you will of course checked out some facts on shower installs in regards to vapour barriers and insulations,all available online.

in regards to trowel applied products:

A wall finishing course or not, myself i am doubtfull as to whether any manufacturer of a trowel applied product such as a marmorino, will give you 100% backing (read as "a warranty with some substance") for this application on a wood frame shower install.
(if your out there and you have product info email me please)

please post some pics of your install as it is now... and after your demo job.

[Freedee]

Thanks for your reply.

I just finished removing the first layer of concrete to the membrane. Of course we need a new membrane. But wait, it gets worse....

After removing the first layer of concrete, I noticed that the concrete was not sloping into the drain. There is an area around the drain that dips, so that the water can pool. I'm SO glad that I took out the concrete. (And the jack hammer is fun)

[KathyFakesIt]

Gawd you're brave! WTG!

Fire both those guys.

[Freedee]

The layer of concrete that was above the liner came up pretty easy. I was thinking of switching fields. Picture this: "Demolition Diva Inc."

The second layer is no fun at all. I'm going to be here for days. I think I'm going to rent a larger jack hammer.

[arlene]

geez...you ARE ambitious woman! wtg,,,keep us posted

[The Plasterers Arms]

[Freedee]

Good thought, but the drain isn't perfectly level, and it's a little too high. The plumber says that he has to take the concrete down a lot in order to fix it. May be he doesn't. I'll wait till Monday. May be he'll look at it again and figure out how to fix it with out all that demolition.

In a way, this whole saga, is not a decorative painting issue but, if we want to do finishes that would replace tiles in showers, we'll have to figure this stuff out. The finish manufacturers are not being very helpful. They are being vague. they don't want to be responsible for the substrate.

I want to warn anyone out there. Be careful before you apply a finish on a shower surround, you need to know how the substrate was done, before you can guarantee the finish. There are several things that were done wrong that I discovered in my shower that would not show up for quite a while. These substrate issues, would look like failure of the application of the Marmorino, (or what ever lime plaster finish you use). You could have some very unhappy costumers and big headaches. If we can work out exactly what substrate we need, this could be great. People spend a lot of money on tiles, they would be willing to spend a lot on this, but don't do this until we figure out the right way of doing this.

[Freedee]

Here's an update. I am having a tad surface applied by someone who has experience. The substrate is almost finished. now it's more of a plaster situation, I think (?). I've posted on the plaster subject area.

The saga continues...