authentic looking patina for frame

pntrgrl · Joined: 14 May 2011 Posts: 137 Location: Kentucky

This is probably the most basic of questions, but somehow it has eluded me.
I need to finish a reproduction gold leaf (enormous) frame. The one that we are copying is obviously real gold, with a nice rich dark patina. It is broken and cracked a LITTLE bit to reveal the thick gesso underneath and the bole is a normal deep terra cotta color. It is just a very very traditional frame.

The mystery to me is the color. It is deep and rich, not bright. How do I get that? Is it a bit of tarnish?- do I achieve it with a chemical? I have never taken a class.

I cannot get the look I want by glazing or antiquing with paint- it would show . There is obviously no paint on the real one.

Also do you have any advice on getting the gesso to just crack a little bit- just hairline cracks? Heat? and at what point in the process?
This cannot look contrived or fake- it needs to really look like the real thing.

And thank you for the advice- I know I have just appeared here and have been posting a lot of questions, but I am busier than I've been in a long while and it seems like all these things are coming up that I have to do that I just don't GET! -kim

CarpenterSF · Joined: 21 Nov 2010 Posts: 115 Location: San Francisco

I hope someone gets around to answering your question. I thought one of the things about gold is that it does not tarnish: are you sure the original was gold?

sonol'artista · Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:45 pm Post subject:

Hence the difference in real gold and dutch leaf! Wink

You can see the difference in how they age and the glow that true gold leaf has.
I have faked it a little in the past with modern masters olympic gold (or other shades they offer)dabbed on with soft cotton over dutch leaf. Just add the highlights on the high profile areas and a darker, tarnished gold in the crevices. Some things are hard to replicate and true gold leaf is one of them!

anita · Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 2738 Location: upstate New York

sometimes using liberon wax over leaf will dull the shininess of it. Those hairline cracks come with age and is often what is used to determine if a piece of art is authentic or a fake. See if you can google art forgers techniques to see if you can pick up any ideas. A long time ago I got some art magazine (cannot remember which one) that discussed the methods used by art forgers -- from baking things in a low heat oven for days to adding either egg yolk or egg white to a certain product to urinating on the canvas (gross!), etc. Although I would never want to go into the forgery business, I was interested in knowing techniques that made things authentically old.

CarpenterSF · Joined: 21 Nov 2010 Posts: 115 Location: San Francisco

pntrgrl · Joined: 14 May 2011 Posts: 137 Location: Kentucky

I really dont know enough about leaf to know WHAT the original is. I think that it is water gilded real gold, because there are very clear "stripes" where the leaves overlap that have been burnished and are slightly more shiny than the rest. I thought that you couldnt burnish unless you water gilded.
And I dont water gild and I've not got the time or resources to learn for this project!

Here's what I did- I used Dutch metal which was way way way too bright, and I coated with clear shellac with a little bit of Raw Umber dry pigment mixed in. It is passable. The color is right , but it looks too much like a glaze on top I think. The client seems to be ok with it (I told them that I just couldnt match the original and that they should get someone else but they couldnt find anyone else so they told me to do what I could)

I confess that I did skip the gesso layers and that was a mistake because the endgrain is very clear at the tops and bottom of the oval. . . the dark "glaze" really soaked into the rough grain- even though it was sanded, primed and painted. . . whoops. But it is just the very edge of the frame, not the front surface. Fingers crossed that they dont call me back to fix it.

pntrgrl · Joined: 14 May 2011 Posts: 137 Location: Kentucky

I really dont know enough about leaf to know WHAT the original is. I think that it is water gilded real gold, because there are very clear "stripes" where the leaves overlap that have been burnished and are slightly more shiny than the rest. I thought that you couldnt burnish unless you water gilded.
And I dont water gild and I've not got the time or resources to learn for this project!

Here's what I did- I used Dutch metal which was way way way too bright, and I coated with clear shellac with a little bit of Raw Umber dry pigment mixed in. It is passable. The color is right , but it looks too much like a glaze on top I think. The client seems to be ok with it (I told them that I just couldnt match the original and that they should get someone else but they couldnt find anyone else so they told me to do what I could)

I confess that I did skip the gesso layers and that was a mistake because the endgrain is very clear at the tops and bottom of the oval. . . the dark "glaze" really soaked into the rough grain- even though it was sanded, primed and painted. . . whoops. But it is just the very edge of the frame, not the front surface. Fingers crossed that they dont call me back to fix it.

pntrgrl · Joined: 14 May 2011 Posts: 137 Location: Kentucky

I really dont know enough about leaf to know WHAT the original is. I think that it is water gilded real gold, because there are very clear "stripes" where the leaves overlap that have been burnished and are slightly more shiny than the rest. I thought that you couldnt burnish unless you water gilded.
And I dont water gild and I've not got the time or resources to learn for this project!

Here's what I did- I used Dutch metal which was way way way too bright, and I coated with clear shellac with a little bit of Raw Umber dry pigment mixed in. It is passable. The color is right , but it looks too much like a glaze on top I think. The client seems to be ok with it (I told them that I just couldnt match the original and that they should get someone else but they couldnt find anyone else so they told me to do what I could)

I confess that I did skip the gesso layers and that was a mistake because the endgrain is very clear at the tops and bottom of the oval. . . the dark "glaze" really soaked into the rough grain- even though it was sanded, primed and painted. . . whoops. But it is just the very edge of the frame, not the front surface. Fingers crossed that they dont call me back to fix it.

anita · Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 2738 Location: upstate New York

white vinegar over dutch metal will also tone it down, rinse well to neutralize.

Beaucastle · Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 483 Location: Vero Beach, FL

Mix some artists oils... van dyke brown, etc... and liquin about 30% paint rest liquin. Brush on thick like grease. wipe off and leave some in cracks. leave some residue that can be softened. If you use size take a hair dryer to it while the gold is drying and some will crack. I bet you can get close with this technique. You might even be able use some good gold paint that can be burnished.