Tadelakt water stains?????

artesano · Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 42 Location: Boulder, COLORADO

This is a call for some suggestions regarding a strange occurrence with a recent tadelakt project that I have done....

I have recently been expiramenting with applying a few coats of olive oil soap paste to the finished tadelakt after it has been finished( in the traditional way) and had a few days to carbonate... the paste is rubbed on to the tadelakt very thinly and shined up with a cloth..... This seems to add a richness and a depth to the finish that you don t get with regular tadelakt....

My first trials of this technique were on objects that do not come into contact with water.......

So, I recently did a tadelakt sink and tried the soap paste method, it turned out very beautiful, let it cure for a month, applied a coat of beeswax soap.

Now, the surface is becoming water spotted, seemingly, when a drop of water falls on it, it leaves a light spot that will not go away.

The mystery is that it only happens on the top (deck) of the sink and not in the "basin" part... both were finished in the exact same way.....

Any ideas of what could be going on here would be very greatly appreciated....

joe greco · Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 557 Location: Toronto

It could be the beeswax?

I believe beeswax is soft and the water bleed ed through

LAD · Joined: 06 Jan 2009 Posts: 127 Location: Chicago Land

I concur with Joe, I think the moisture is trapped between your soap layer and beeswax. Have you tried stripping the beeswax and just applying the soap? The Tadelakt plaster along with the soap should be well sufficient.

artesano · Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 42 Location: Boulder, COLORADO

Thanks for the input... the water spots started to occur before the wax was applied... also, I apply this same wax to all of the tadelakt that I do with no waterspotting... it is a pure white beeswax soap cere stucco soap from kremer.

The Plasterers Arms · Joined: 22 Dec 2007 Posts: 422 Location: Vancouver BC

hi ryan ...

is it on the tadelakt sold by kremer? or is it there soap on your own made "tadelakt"

and a shot in the dark for the spots...are you working in an area where you would normally or have done tadelakt in the past? or are you away from home?

the dark shot is.... by any chance is the property on a well, and they are hard water deposits getting trapped between layers ?

as for the deck and basin,could it be that the sink is in everyday use and the soap from normal handwashing has protected the basin even further,repelling the water

The Plasterers Arms · Joined: 22 Dec 2007 Posts: 422 Location: Vancouver BC

hi ryan ...

is it on the tadelakt sold by kremer? or is it there soap on your own made "tadelakt"

and a shot in the dark for the spots...are you working in an area where you would normally or have done tadelakt in the past? or are you away from home?

the dark shot is.... by any chance is the property on a well, and they are hard water deposits getting trapped between layers ?

as for the deck and basin,could it be that the sink is in everyday use and the soap from normal handwashing has protected the basin even further,repelling the water

artesano · Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 42 Location: Boulder, COLORADO

This is a tadelakt formula that I have made on my own (tried and true) lots of successful applications in wet areas... the beeswax soap is from kremer.

As far as I know, the water is ok, it is downtown boulder city water, but, I guess I have not completely ruled it out

IMPORTANT.. ! the water spots were happening before the wax was applied,
I always wait 30 days for the tadelakt to carbonate before applying the wax,
and the water spots are continuing after the wax has been applied..

An interesting note... the soap paste is dark olive green color and seems to darken the surface of the tadelakt which makes it richer in color, when the water spots happen, they are a lighter color.... closer to what the tadelakt would look like without the dark soap....

So it might stand to reason that the drips are washing the dark soap off of the surface, (my initial thought)... but my attempts to scrub the surface with a wet washcloth made no discoloration....

The Plasterers Arms · Joined: 22 Dec 2007 Posts: 422 Location: Vancouver BC

so what was the final outcome here ryan??
did you get things worked out?

tadman · Joined: 05 Sep 2008 Posts: 5 Location: UK

Have come across this problem before on some samples. The problem was down to, too much soap on the Tadelakt. If you apply to much soap or to thick solution the soap can dry on the surface and when it comes into contact with hot water you will get white spots/marks, this can also happen with wax (which I never use).
What you need to do is treat the surface with sugar soap. This will disolve what is sitting on the surface then wash down with clean cold water. Do not apply any more soap or wax your Tadelakt will be fine. The sugar soap I use is a product called Napona.

Not fauxnee · Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject:

do you have a picture you can post of your Tadelakt project. I would love to see this finish (as I'm sure we all would). Thanks....and good luck with the spot problem. Hope it got fixed.

Perfectino · Joined: 04 Apr 2008 Posts: 5 Location: Europe

Here you can have a pretty good view of the magic of true Tadelakt. This one is a shower space with TadelaktPro, the modern version of the Moroccan tadelakt.

PS: Tadelakt is never a 'home made' recipe made out any type of lime. Real Tadelakt is completely stain proof AND waterproof, naturally. It does not need any wax. No cement, no calcium carbonate or marble powder, no additives, no resins: ONLY a very specific lime mix.

KathyFakesIt · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:43 pm Post subject:

Oh man, that is so gorgeous!

vitold01 · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject:

Great looking...

The Plasterers Arms · Joined: 22 Dec 2007 Posts: 422 Location: Vancouver BC

Perfectino · Joined: 04 Apr 2008 Posts: 5 Location: Europe

Tadelakt is not cement but lime.
by being produced at lower temperatures than cement, lime mortar requires less energy, resulting in 20% less CO2 output.

• tadelakt absorbs CO2 in the curing process. Non-hydraulic lime absorbs nearly its own weight in CO2, hydraulic lime, around 75% and lower.

• lime mortar can be re-cycled, unlike cement

• bricks using lime mortar can be recycled unlike the cement bonded equivalent which can only be used for hardcore.

• strong, flexible, permeable. Traditional buildings built using lime mortar move and absorb moisture. In comparison with cement mortar which is rigid, lime mortar 'moves' with the structure and so prevents masonry from cracking.

More specifically Tadelakt is completely waterproof due to the chemical reaction between the soap and the lime.
TadelaktPro is a mix of 7 different lime types (hydraulic and nn hydraulic) Each lime has its specific characteristics and it is this mix that makes it so easy and resistant.

artesano · Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 42 Location: Boulder, COLORADO

"Real Tadelakt" is Chunks of limestone piled into a big stack with a big hole underneath for a big fire that is fueled by burning palm fronds. "Real Tadelakt" is then allowed to cool and slaked with enough water to form a dry powder. "Real Tadelakt" is fired at too low a temperature for the core of the stone to be fully calcined leaving inert bits of limestone behind after the slaking process. Real Tadelakt is a very feebly hydraulic class B lean lime that is tough to work with and has to be applied like pankake batter. "Real Tadelakt has been produced in the exact same way for a thousand years. "Real Tadelakt is never available for sale in the US or europe unless someone imports it from marrakech and marks up the price 500% If you consider Tadelakt to be a material then what I have just described is the ONLY "Real Tadelakt"

I believe that tadelakt is an application technique and a craft. It is very exacting and requires great skill and understanding. Tadelakt can be made perfectly well from hydrated lime that you can buy on the shelf at home depot. If you understand what you are doing, and you understand lime and you really understand the chemistry and science of how tadelakt works tadelakt most certainly can be a home made recipe.

Please look at my website www.artesanoplaster.com all of the tadelakt that you see is made from hydrated lime produced here in the U.S. Some of the showers have been in daily use for many years.

Ok, I m coming down off of my olive oil soap box now.

The Plasterers Arms · Joined: 22 Dec 2007 Posts: 422 Location: Vancouver BC

I stopped reading at "Tadelakt is not cement but lime"
hey ryan interested in coming back to van to work on a tadelakt veneer job? just for the hell of it ? how many dirham in a buck Razz

look here-->------> http://authentic-plaster-fx.net/wordpress/lime-green-blog/

Perfectino · Joined: 04 Apr 2008 Posts: 5 Location: Europe

KathyFakesIt · Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:30 pm Post subject:

Perfectino, welcome back! We're glad you're here and your work and knowledge are appreciated. . Those are pretty samples.

Twisted Sisters II · Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 6

Can anyone tell me where I can purchase Tadelakt plaster

KathyFakesIt · Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:29 am Post subject:

Where are you in the USA? I'll try to find someone close to you that sells it.

Twisted Sisters II · Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 6

Yes I live in the US.

KathyFakesIt · Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:52 am Post subject:

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear with my question.

Which State do you live in?

Twisted Sisters II · Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 6

I live in Texas about 90 miles east of Houston.