Bidding against friends???

[Meem]

I have a few faux friends in town, but there are 3 of us who chat regularly, share/borrow, vent, collaborate when necessary etc. Typically, we work alone. This morning I got an email from one of them, venting that she lost a bid (too high) after investing time & travel and that the customer may shop around. This afternoon, I rec'd an email from said customer!!

This situation has never come up before (to our knowledge). I called my faux friend & left a message letting her know. This puts me in a dilemma. I don't want to undercut, but I'd love to have the job - & more than likely someone (around here) will end up getting the project. My problem solving skills are telling me to: talk to my friend to hear her thoughts, I would suggest that she suggest to the customer simpler finishes which may fit into her budget. But, should I reply to the customers email? Make an appt or tell her I'm too busy right now (lie).

Whatdayathink?? meem

[lisascenic]

I think that as women, we are trained to be nice first, and then to look after our own interest second.

And you're trapped between the urge to be a good friend, and the need to operate your business like a business.

I'm not offering solutions. Just making an observation.

[lynne]

i'm curious how did your friend "loose" this job when they customer is still shopping?

respond to the customer. ask her budget. it's possible what they wants is more than they can afford.


don't undercut anyone- but do be sure it's apples to apples bidding. i really don't think your friend has any right to hold it against you if you get the job but do a simpler finish. she should have thought of that while she had the customer's attention.

[Linda Marsteller]

Did she tell you (or did the client tell you) what her price was?

[Meem]

At this point, I still have not heard from my friend, I left a message on her cell regarding all this. But her email said "I did bid high." The customer's email mentioned that she has a $3500-5000 budget -"wondering if you accept work in this price range." But, I have no idea yet what the customer expects for this price. Lisa, you're observation is exactly the dilemma that I'm in.

[mystic]

.....friends are friends. Business is business. If you show up with more "options" with prices accordingly for the finishes....its business and your friend didnt close the deal. Clients often shop around and sometimes the first one there educates them on cost. If the first one there (your friend) also offered a variety, assuming or knowing the client was shopping for a painter.....your friend would have had the job. If she dosnt understand this and it causes problems in the friendship......IMO...its not a sound friendship. This might sound cold but we all bid against each other....we win some....we loose some.
Whats that saying......"the early bird dosnt always get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese"

I wouldnt undercut your friend and dont know how you would know unless you guys share your pricing, (illegal) but I would bid it with the numbers you use in your business structure.

[arlene]

Meem, this is innevitable, it has happened to me a small handful of times, the interaction between myself and a few members of this very forum have been amicable most of the time when talked about and seperating business before friendship.

[Linda Marsteller]

Did she bid high knowing the budget was 3500-5000?

[Pat]

Holly, Mark P and I have used our friendship to the advantage and I am sorry but I feel the saying "business is business" is a cop out. Business is very personal and to think it is not simplifies the whole premise behind it. Holly, Mark and I watch each others back and can actually give each other a heads up on a customer and sometimes guide each other into closing a deal that maybe we were not able to. Mark called me two days ago saying he was going to be in my town. I ask him who he was meeting and he told me and becuase of that I was able to give him a heads up on that clients missfalls since they used to be one of mine and thankfully not anymore. He is now able to protect himself.

As far as your friend goes, she lost the bid and now maybe she can help you get the bid. I don't think this is a conflict in your friendship at all (because she already lost it) and I am sure she would rather have her friend win the commision than a stranger. Just my two cents.

[Annie]

I often refer prospects to different faux finishers in the area if my price is too high. I also have had faux finisher in my area refer her clients to me if the job was beyond her scope. Conversly, I have had a fellow faux finisher or two bad mouth me if they found out that client was also getting a bid from me. your friend did seem upset that the people chose not to use her so I'm not sure how she will react. Tricky! Good Luck and let us know how it pans out

[wallstreat]

Is there any way you can meet with the client but offer a different solution from what your friend showed? I am always leary of customers who do not appreciate the artistry and want you to copy or do the same thing as another artist. Either that, or they just want plain jane production finishes and have no imagination. You may want to ask your friend what the client wanted and what she showed so you at least are not bidding on the same thing.

[strongv]

There is a huge difference between warning a colleague about a potential problem client and colluding on price or presentation.

Do your thing... she/he does theirs... It's the client's choice and no whining.

Ethical competition means that you asses independently, you don't deliberately compare or contrast yourself to the other person, and you just get on with your own business.

The client is still shopping, they're nobody's yet.

Pat

[Kim S]

assess, eh Pat

we all ass independently

[sonol'artista]

Pat said it best....just do what you always do for a bid. We all go up against friends sometimes. Just be true to your self and what you are good at. Sometimes it is just how a person *clicks* with the client, or maybe your portfolio is more their taste....just be prepared as with any bid and if you are meant to get the job, you will! Life is really pretty simple if you let it be.

Theresa

[Bonnie Lecat]

Is your client just trying to get you to do the exact same thing she had your friend quote on? If so, I think you should let your friend know. I had this happen to me; I had been to a woman's house, gave her ideas and a price and she then got on the phone with a budget, which was the price I gave her, and an idea, which was what I sat at her house figuring out for an hour. I think that is just wrong even if she just didn't wanted to use me.

[Bonnie Lecat]

I don't think I was clear there. Anyway, the person she got on the phone with was a friend of mine that I was having dinner with that evening. We sat down and she started telling me about a job that she had just accepted for a "ridiculous" price.

[Pat]

Great questions and I am very curious to see what the answers are and what transpires.

[Meem]

And the saga goes on..........I spoke to my friend last nite & she gave me her blessings as to meeting, bidding etc. From what I understand, they wanted multiple projects, 2 small murals, a ceiling, a master bath etc. My friends bid was around $19,000. I think maybe that she only learned of the customers budget afterwards. But even if my friend bid high, theres no way that the customer will get this extensive list for $5000 or less from me or anyone around here.

I replied to the customer this morning, & they will be in town next weekend so I'll meet with them Saturday. They mentioned only two projects, a small mural & master bath!!?

I think you're right though, sometimes client/contractor relationships are lightly based on feelings. Perhaps, they just didn't sync. Thanks for all your insight. Meem

[sdbydv]

Meem,

Let us know how it works out.

Arlene and I live within a mile of each other. I received a call from a potential client, and made an appointment with her for the next week. The morning of the appt, she called to say she had already hired someone, and didn't want me to waste my time. I asked her if she wouldn't mind telling me who it was, and she said Arlene. I told the woman I'm sure she'd be very happy with her, because I know her and her work.

While of course it hurts to lose jobs, I'm happy it went to someone I know, who is also good. I HATE to see bad faux, or to lose a job to non-professionals with a kitchen sponge who undercut us and bring the whole industry down.

As long as nothing is being done maliciously behind a colleague/friend's back, I think it should work out fine. Win some lose some.

Good luck!

Debbie

[katzuke]

OK, Bonnie... so your friend didn't know you had already met with the client? Had she met with her before you? It sounds a little weird to get a phone call saying, "Here, this is my budget...want the job?" It does take all kinds, though. People/clients never cease to amaze me.

[arlene]

If your friend approached you, or you approached her, and you were honest, there should be know hard feelings. If you hid it or were not up front about getting the call your friend could get the wrong impression. This is not a huge industry, we have a way of running into each other like other industries and life people get hurt, people say stupid things and wish they could take them back. I would like to hope that some one who calls me a friend would not only give me a heads up to a potential problem, but also tell me if she /he got a call from the same client I did. What if the job was big enough and a collaborative effort could be made. I do not agree with the "business is business" approach because, burnt bridges occur and hurt feelings happen. The issue then becomes trust and once that is compromised its damn hard to earn someones trust back.. Just my opinion You are a good egg as my mother says, Meem, you will do what good for you and your friend.

[mystic]

Your taking the business is business all the wrong way. I merely meant it should be seperate. Works for me. Example....Mark calls Pat and says hes coming to town (friends), Pat warns about client, (friends), Mark bids (business), Mark wins bid (business), Pat dosnt mind that X client didnt call him back and glad Mark got job. (Friends)
Meant it as a way to keep the lines drawn from interferring with each other....Example.....I have been given the "warning" or scoop about a client from fellow painter.....turned out (more than once) to be excellent client for us. I always appreciate the Friendship part..but do not allow it to influence my business decisions from past experience. Sometimes personalitys dont work.
Everybody runs there business differently and as long as you are successful at running it in the middle of your painting friends, and you stay friends.....then keep going. Did not mean anything about burning bridges. I only once was bidding on a job that I found out someone I knew (internet) was bidding on the same job. It was Holly. We didnt bid. I also never ask who else bid, or how many as I dont care. Only found out it was Holly cause I called her to see if she wanted to work. By the way Holly, did you get that job?

[Dancing Deb]

Friendship is friendship, business is business, and ever the 'twain should meet for both to thrive and flourish. We have had occasions to bid against Galina on a job or two. We have shared price and job parameters, and the fact that oh, by the way, the husband showed us the Boxer/Spyder/Mazzerati in the garage. And we have referred each other to jobs which made more sense for the other one to handle.

Follow your gut as well as your heart, treat your faux friends the way you would wish to be treated.

[Bonnie Lecat]

Kathleen, to answer your question...

I gave the client ideas and a price and she told me I had the job, she then used the info I had given her to call around and get it done cheaper. She called my friend, had her come out, told her exactly what she wanted done and said she only had "x" amount of dollars, asked if she would do it for that price and my friend agreed. That night at dinner, my friend told me about the appointment she had just been on. I had been the day before. My friend was appalled when we realized what had happened and was going to turn it down after that, but I told her go ahead and do it.

You know, she could have just decided that she didn't want me to do it for whatever reason. But I still think it was wrong the way she went about it.

[Jodi]

That is dirty Bonnie! I hope your friend can somehow let this client know that she knows what she did was low down. (of course in a nice way )